00:00:04: RTL Stories, the podcast

00:00:06: with Lisa Burke from RTL

00:00:07: Group.

00:00:10: The one day in... This colleague from London called me and asked if I could see myself moving to Australia for a year?

00:00:19: In three months!

00:00:21: And i ask her like for twenty four hours think about it but then how can say

00:00:27: no?!

00:00:28: What an opportunity what great honor to be asked.

00:00:37: Hello and welcome to Orteal Stories, the podcast.

00:00:40: I'm Lisa Berg based here at Orteale in Luxembourg And In this series we explore The lives of extraordinary people who have made Ortele their career home Investigating what they do and how They got there.

00:00:54: now.

00:00:54: today's guest works behind one Of the most recognizable brands in German television.

00:00:59: Katja Borla is an executive producer at Ufa serial drama and leads guttizaiten schlick tizaitin Good Times, Bad Times or as many viewers in Germany know it as Gate Z, SZ.

00:01:11: One of Germany's longest running and most successful daily drama series.

00:01:17: Kalte's career has been deeply connected to high-paced serial storytelling for over twenty years.

00:01:24: And all this started out a casting assistant director at Ufa.

00:01:29: She worked her way through other productions before eventually returning what she calls the mothership.

00:01:34: But alongside her production work, Katja also flipped over into management and helped to drive major change around representation and diversity inside the German television industry.

00:01:49: She established Uffa's Diversity Circle and Uffas Green Team contributing to the company's commitment greater diversity both in front of and behind the camera, a more ecologically sustainable way to produce and shoot audio-visual content.

00:02:07: So today we're going look inside making of daily serial production – also how you can move across careers within one mothership!

00:02:19: Thank you so much for having me and for the beautiful introduction.

00:02:22: You're making me blush a little bit.

00:02:24: Well, it's all of your life.

00:02:25: So we are going to start out because Your whole career demonstrates A path forged by openness curiosity And The building Of global network!

00:02:35: You have an insatiable one To learn.

00:02:37: that is very clear.

00:02:39: But let us go back to how It All began.

00:02:41: From my little chat We had earlier A casting director Walked into your parents pub And then your life has changed since then.

00:02:49: Tell us about that first moment?

00:02:51: Well, I had recently graduated from university and was a business major... ...and i figured that im going to spend my life in HR maybe.. ..I was still on the period where I worked and traveled And then this set casting director walked into that bar, and after a while offered me an internship at the Casting Department of Ufa Serial Drama or back-then Grandi Ufa.

00:03:19: I was like well it's HR.

00:03:21: in a way why not give her to try?

00:03:24: That was in two thousand and four, I have not really left since then.

00:03:29: And it's a really incredible story because you spent more than twenty years working on daily television!

00:03:37: It is the tough fast-paced industry that turn around its high pressure.

00:03:42: how do you manage to deliver constantly?

00:03:48: I guess in working with fabulous people and a fabulous team, especially the pace environment that you're talking about.

00:03:56: It's making TV or movies is always teamwork but this environment it even more important to work with the best people and... To work together, if you do daily drama everybody just knows exactly what they're doing.

00:04:13: It's a very professional environment And that is the only way we can do it.

00:04:18: So in the end If your executive producer or director Or an assistant on set We are all part of big machines a great machine, but we all have our roles that are very clearly defined and work hand-in-hand in the best of ways.

00:04:41: And for those outside Germany good times bad times it's been running from more than thirty years.

00:04:47: It is extremely established.

00:04:49: its got an intergenerational audience.

00:04:50: tell us about what means to the fabric really of pop culture.

00:04:57: Good Times, Bad Times is thirty four years old now and has been a staple in TV.

00:05:03: I think you can ask every German.

00:05:05: they all know good times bad times.

00:05:07: i think my favorite example of myself going to watch a movie last year it was huge movie based on the novel there were two young people who had just met starting their relationship Between the two of them he became a bit emotional and then the girl said are you're getting?

00:05:28: To get set as set?

00:05:29: for me now.

00:05:30: This is what good times bad times Is.

00:05:32: it's just its part of pop culture.

00:05:34: You, just know if somebody is

00:05:36: too

00:05:36: good Times bad times um you Just Know What It Means.

00:05:41: Very Many People in Germany Yes, yes it is.

00:05:45: And I think very many people in Germany had a time where they watched it maybe as kids with their parents Maybe when they became parents.

00:05:52: everybody has the phase Where they watch the soap and very many People did that.

00:05:57: good times bad times.

00:05:58: That's still a case.

00:06:01: It's an old show now but we're still catching millions of people every day.

00:06:06: We are very successful in streaming developing along With our audience And

00:06:13: you've also said that the pace of narrative is an important issue when it comes to developing soap themes.

00:06:42: has lowered in recent years.

00:06:44: How do you do that?

00:06:46: First of all, I think for a lot people who watch daily dramas or good times and bad times it's part of their family.

00:06:52: they just see them as an important part of life sometimes spend maybe even ten to twenty years with the world.

00:07:05: I think takes a lot of people back in this hard and difficult times, and stressful times to just spend some time with their friends' families on front-of-the TV.

00:07:18: And join them!

00:07:21: But i do believe that our pacing went down.

00:07:24: To be honest we were actually getting a bit slower In those times because the world is getting overwhelming and difficult.

00:07:37: Yes, like you said our competition becomes more diverse.

00:07:42: Like we're competing with YouTube for example or with TikTok and all of this.

00:07:47: but I still think... Our audience group is not nineteen year olds And will never reach them.

00:07:53: We are strongest currently between the age.

00:07:56: Thirty and forty-nine were actually very strong in that group, even stronger there than with the older people.

00:08:03: Some consume content while on a bus or on their way from A to B take it for a little short while to take a breath and spend some time with people they know.

00:08:19: And that's why you watch daily drama!

00:08:21: You also tackle really socially relevant topics, on the leading edge of these conversations.

00:08:26: often I know that you've covered organ donation cancer awareness addiction mental health.

00:08:31: how do you responsibly integrate this very important issues to entertain millions of people, but also for some people give them a template on how to approach these topics if they are dealing with that in their own lives and want talk about such topics.

00:08:51: I think we're all very experienced not only me because it has always been done by the daily dramas.

00:09:01: It's the most important thing to tell these stories never with like a raised finger of how you have to do things, but with an approach where we offer opportunities and possibilities.

00:09:14: Like if you're in this situation what you could do is... And we always have consultants that work with us on those topics so they are not making any mistakes But We Always Try To Offer A Way Out.

00:09:31: How it's done is just by you know being empathetic and thinking about how would you want to see that?

00:09:39: And staying with our characters, asking questions that are legit.

00:09:45: So I think, yeah.

00:09:46: The most important part is it's never you have to do like that but You could Do It Like That and in the end In a lot of cases the answer Is share.

00:09:56: talk with your family.

00:09:57: Talk With Your Friends.

00:09:59: Don't Stay Alone With Your Issues.

00:10:01: Work With The People That Surround You.

00:10:03: Thats What Our Characters Do And Those Moments Which Is Always What Helps Them.

00:10:14: Well, I'm imagining it like this intergenerational family on the sofa.

00:10:18: And then the extra member of the family is the television set or however one is absorbing media in a way that becomes almost part to explore these different challenges many of us face in our daily lives.

00:10:34: You have this feeling of being at home because that thirty-four year old continuity, the same characters and families through Good Times Bad Times.

00:10:43: But how do you incorporate new members behind scenes so That Good Times bad times can have its continuity?

00:10:56: Well, to be honest at GoTemps bedtimes in our story room very many colleagues have been there for many years.

00:11:06: It's not easy to become part of that team because this team is very connected to the show and they're really passionate about what they do.

00:11:17: so we always try to invite new writers –for example no creatives–to join us But it's a hard task.

00:11:24: It's hard for new people to get into that, but we're always trying.

00:11:28: and then I think if you come To join us And If You really passionate about daily drama?

00:11:37: What We do and how We Do it!

00:11:39: You will Always be able to find your way in Get accepted and stay and have fun.

00:11:45: So i Think That the major thing

00:11:48: To be locked in and to want-to-be there, of course.

00:11:51: Now soap operas have been also at the leading edge of analysing audience data... ...and viewing patterns & habits.

00:11:59: How much do you use audience data?

00:12:01: And the analytics?

00:12:04: they're shaped in so many different ways nowadays.. ..to help shape your creative decisions?

00:12:09: Oh we use them every day.

00:12:10: if you talk about like Simple ratings like data, how many people are watching an episode per night?

00:12:18: How many minutes of each episodes do they stay.

00:12:22: We look at that every day.

00:12:24: really it's our basis because in what we do... ...we can learn from it and It can have an impact on what we doing different.

00:12:32: if you just have a one-off movie then the data will tell You something.

00:12:36: for your next movie maybe but for us the basis of our work, but we also do quality research.

00:12:44: We really have panel discussions with audience members and ask them questions about how they like a storyline or character... ...and we work on that feedback as well.

00:12:57: So I'm going to bring all of this together.

00:12:58: That's what you're doing now, but if we go back a little bit.

00:13:01: You had been working as a producer for long time and then you flipped.

00:13:05: For some people they might think it has moved sideways into management A very unusual one And that move within a very large company away from the creative team.

00:13:16: A lot of people must have thought, what are you doing?

00:13:19: Because it seems so unusual.

00:13:21: However when I looked into it there is so many overlaps.

00:13:25: So as i see in the world of soap operas You're seeing the biggest social questions at our times.

00:13:30: That's what your tackling on storylines.

00:13:32: And secondly we've just mentioned that soap opera has always been on the leading edge of dealing with data Audience Data and so combine both these skills rather than looking outward to audience inward to what was happening within a very large company.

00:13:47: And you felt it was important to take ownership and responsibility... ...to the people of the company, AND THE ENVIRONMENT!

00:13:56: You actually invented a completely new job title.

00:13:59: so talk us about this move and what instigated it with in YOU?

00:14:03: I love to listen to you talking about that Lisa because all over sudden my career makes sense because sometimes I wonder if it does.

00:14:13: Because like you said, i was never that interested in a classic walk up the career ladder... ...I always intrigued by new adventures and challenges.

00:14:24: so most of my time didn't stay longer on one project or one job than one-and-a half to two years for something else to do or I invented something for myself.

00:14:39: And always had a lot of support from my managers and HR who always let me do that, yes at one point it was an eighteen on nineteen with the whole Me Too happening Friday's For Future happening i started thinking about personal responsibility in Earth.

00:15:00: but also that really has an impact, because we're content creators.

00:15:08: We are being watched by millions of people which makes us carry a lot of responsibility.

00:15:13: and it was the first time I discussed this with myself!

00:15:20: First of all... And then i got offered to lead the internal education program at Ufa and thought yeah you can do that but to work in creative responsibility as well.

00:15:34: So I called myself Creative Responsibility Manager, and do believe that i stole it from somebody at Random House.

00:15:43: um yeah but...I think its like..it's the same company.

00:15:47: that might

00:15:48: be okay.

00:15:48: It is actually a beautiful title.

00:15:50: Creative Responsible Manager.

00:15:53: Thank you!

00:15:54: And it brings everything into your life?

00:15:58: And then I started to work with the diversity topic and introduced diversity management to Ufa, and also sustainability in producing and shooting.

00:16:11: Yeah because then Ufa became the first German entertainment company to publicly commit to measurable... ...and here that data comes back into your life story.

00:16:20: Measurable diversity goals!

00:16:22: Why was it important for you make a commitment publicly?

00:16:27: As

00:16:28: you said, I always like data and was used to working with it.

00:16:33: But also thought we're still a business.

00:16:37: if i wanna pitch this what do my CEO cannot tell him want us be better people because were still company that needs make money.

00:16:49: so approach the topic from an audience point of view.

00:16:54: So I figured how does the German society look like?

00:16:57: They have changed and they are changing all the time, we're not representing the German audience in our shows.

00:17:04: so maybe we should work on that.

00:17:07: but to work on it will become aware first if our on-screen diversity matches the German diversity because if doesn't then there is a problem.

00:17:19: So, that was my approach.

00:17:21: And that's why we started to measure the on-screen diversity of the whole Ufa portfolio

00:17:29: which is superb.

00:17:30: but you didn't just stay with human diversity.

00:17:33: You also moved into the green world and ecology surrounding it necessarily an obvious things associated with filming, but in fact you are also part of the group.

00:17:47: The production representatives and broadcasters that negotiated... ...the German Green shooting standards with the German Film Fund.

00:17:55: so tell us about that!

00:17:56: That

00:17:56: was very exciting because I think it's first time for Germany.

00:18:01: The whole industry worked together with one goal.

00:18:05: I had never experienced that before, so in our group there were broadcasters and lobby entities and production companies And we discussed what the standards for ecological shooting could be.

00:18:19: We negotiated it through film funding or with the German lawmakers, actually to become part of the German film funding.

00:18:30: So we wanted them in order get from... You know, the official film funding you need to produce green and measure your CO-II output.

00:18:42: And that's what we did!

00:18:43: That was I think very important.

00:18:46: it wasn't like a great experience just with so many people one goal into all be together on this same side even with competitors

00:18:56: which is an extraordinary, successful win and all for the better of the world.

00:19:00: And people involved there as well.

00:19:02: now moving on to another chapter of your life in October twenty-twenty one during the covid period you moved to Australia first and at neighbors now neighbors.

00:19:15: Obviously moving to Australia is a large step and when I was reading the notes as well, i had not realised that it was Australian producers who were brought to Germany at first.

00:19:26: To write soap operas for Unto Uns!

00:19:28: For example.

00:19:29: So in fact It Was Flipping That And They Now Asked German To Move Over To Australia To Help Them With Neighbours At A Very Very Difficult Time For Neighbors Back In Twenty-Twenty One Things Were Unfolding In The Real World For Neighbour.

00:19:44: Yes, it was like you said an absolute full circle moment for me to go over there and work with them.

00:19:53: Fremantle had always done a great job of connecting all the daily drama producers at Frementl in form of a conference.

00:20:01: We've done that every two or three years so we knew each other.

00:20:06: And then one day This colleague from London called me and asked if I could see myself moving to Australia for a year in three months.

00:20:18: And, I ask her like four twenty-four hours of thinking about it.

00:20:21: but then how can i say no?

00:20:24: What an opportunity!

00:20:26: what great honor to be asked.

00:20:28: they were looking for additional producer because they already knew that might get cancelled from their British broadcaster in the next year.

00:20:37: So, the executive producer was supposed to look for new commissioners and streaming services.

00:20:43: so they needed an additional producer.

00:20:45: And Australia always had two SOAPs neighbors at home and away.

00:20:50: They were not many producers of the country.

00:20:53: It's it is not a lot people living in Australia.

00:20:55: To be honest Not too much.

00:20:57: people who have experience with soap for somebody who was experienced and could start, just you know arrive and start their job.

00:21:06: So yeah that's what I did in mid lockdown.

00:21:10: It's an extraordinary

00:21:11: story.

00:21:12: And the

00:21:12: quarantine, yeah you spent two weeks of quarantine soaking up all of the scripts and watching to see the content.

00:21:19: but as you've explained me before is well that when you are a soap producer it's a little bit like um a key in a lock.

00:21:27: You know The process producing daily drama In Australia has exactly the same format and feeling and meetings almost As That in Germany.

00:21:36: so part Of it was the Same.

00:21:39: part of it was very different.

00:21:41: And you're taking on something deeply iconic at a very fragile moment, and so that must have been all this by the way during COVID.

00:21:52: So there's a lot coming out to their as well.

00:21:55: It must've be.

00:21:56: I mean You Must Have Seen Some Very Deep Conversations With People Who Have Literally Grown Up with Neighbours Also When People Knew It Was Closing.

00:22:07: How Do You Develop A Script Through That?

00:22:10: I think you can't.

00:22:12: This was so special, You can possibly develop a script to how to behave in the situation like that.

00:22:21: The show then cancelled.

00:22:23: while it's there even quicker than we thought It later got picked up again by streaming service but at this point it was cancelled.

00:22:33: So it is very emotional time.

00:22:36: I was a good support for the producing team because i wasn't so emotionally involved as everybody else there.

00:22:43: So sometimes if you needed, you know ,a clear head or somebody in a conversation who is not knowing another person for twenty years.

00:22:53: having worked together for twenty year's...I always knew one and could be clear and structuring..i had very unique learning experience at neighbors.

00:23:05: it It was emotional.

00:23:07: Um, it made me very proud that I had the chance to be part of this even for like only one season and... ...it was great that i was able to do that in a company like

00:23:19: this.

00:23:21: You're stint in Australia, you learned an awful lot and then you returned to Germany.

00:23:27: And so now back in Germany.

00:23:29: we are at the age of AI.

00:23:31: AI is trying to change workflows but it can't do everything yet!

00:23:36: There's probably some examples where they work quite well perhaps... ...and bring costs down dubbing for instance?

00:23:42: How are finding changes unfolding around creative processes?

00:23:47: First of all, it's very exciting for us.

00:23:49: It is exciting to try new things and especially the daily dramas have always been innovation-friendly or tech friendly.

00:23:58: Finding ways how technology can help us streamline our production process... ...and make life easier for us and give more time.

00:24:08: being creative has always been our culture and character.

00:24:13: producing soaps With AI, we still have to learn a lot and were still in the testing phase.

00:24:20: So with doing a lot of tests... In post-production area for example And editing process We're doing test with props, graphic design now being able to do things that we haven't been able to before.

00:24:36: And I think the next step is work with green screens and generate backdrops of AI, send our characters towards where they couldn't have traveled too because their budget won't

00:24:50: allow.

00:24:52: but it was still in a testing phase And I think we will still need some time to test things.

00:24:59: That's one part of the nurturing of new technology, but the nurturing human talent is another thing.

00:25:05: you've spoken passionately about this as well supporting young writers directors and trainees which is where your whole industry began.

00:25:12: so how are you developing talent alongside these technologies change?

00:25:18: Always by giving them chance to try and do their best with us.

00:25:24: I think we have always been very inviting to new talent, if you become part of the team like on a set level for example You'll be able to learn and step up.

00:25:37: We've had many young people doing their apprenticeship so it's just a natural part in our story.

00:25:49: If you do a long running show, You have the privilege to be able to offer that because it's not only two weeks or three months.

00:25:58: With us ,you can stay for years if you want and learn develop

00:26:03: And then finally really A lot of people are watching this podcast series To see how you Have moved through your career in all Of the different options and choices you've made.

00:26:13: Firstly with That Are YOU happy?

00:26:16: on reflection of your own career and what would you like to do next?

00:26:19: And secondly, with everything that you have experienced.

00:26:22: What advice would you give somebody who wants to walk into the television career particularly when it comes to drama series?

00:26:28: today

00:26:29: I am very happy with what i'm doing and with the choices I made.

00:26:34: um...I think I never had a plan for my own career but just always lived in the moment then current year challenge and task.

00:26:44: And if I thought, okay, I can do that now?

00:26:47: I know how it's done!

00:26:48: Um...I jumped to something different.

00:26:51: so for there being in a big company like we all are you have very many opportunities and i think It is very important especially as woman To build good network.

00:27:03: So I can only recommend um..to work on your network just approach people look at the same things give people like a message, write an email.

00:27:16: Give them a call and ask for an

00:27:19: exchange.".

00:27:19: And I never experienced anyone saying no because everybody is always like yeah sure...I mean i've invited people from other companies to speak at Ufa about their projects, because I'm so convinced that this is how we can all learn and develop.

00:27:38: And i think it's just so much fun!

00:27:40: So I can only tell everybody get to know people go to events that are taking place... ...and just meet people because its a big privilege an opportunity to work in the company like that.

00:27:55: It was wonderful privilege.

00:27:56: you slated out very well done all of the things you've just described so that we can feel very proud and you are an icon, a beacon for many people as well.

00:28:06: And off-the-back of what Katya has said now is a chance to get to know through the internet if There's a comment section there.

00:28:19: Of course, it is always better to meet people in real life or online for phone call if you so wish and its quite easy to get in touch with one of us through social media channels.

00:28:30: You just search for Orteal Group on LinkedIn Instagram YouTube And nowadays most people are findable.

00:28:36: Katya thankyou so much your time and reflections over what has been the fabulous career.

00:28:42: A couple decades left to go I'm sure.

00:28:44: Thank you very much for your time and questions, Lisa.

00:28:47: That was a lot of fun!